Historical Lit...

[aeslis]

I really go for fiction set in older societies, which is the main reason I go for fantasy, since they're often written in medieval times. But I've always been aching for fiction set in some of the other cultures and societies, as well, particularly Egypt, Greece, Rome, Constantinople, and Japan. When I go poking through Amazon, 90% of the books I find look more like history lessons than character-driven stories, even when they're novels. (Also, if it's got a lot of political focus, I tune out.)

I've also tried to find books set in harems, but they seem to be few an far between. Really? I mean, really? It seems like such a ripe topic.

Any ideas, guys? ♥

Comments

[themis]

Lindsey Davis' Falco books (starting with The Silver Pigs) are mysteries set in Rome (Vespasian's reign). They are heavy on character development, with the history nicely integrated. Although the books are pretty political, they're much less so than, say, I, Claudius - the politics are part of the world. In general, I'd say the history and politics are essential to the books, but not in a way that makes you feel like you're sitting in a classroom.

Falco is a snarky, clever narrator . . . with a lot of bad luck. Also, the love story is A+.

Disclaimer: There are like 20 and I've only read the first couple, so I don't know how they develop.

[aeslis]

Oh, I will definitely look into those! They sound promising, and I've never heard of them. Thank you so much.

[shiny_crystal]

Hmm, I mostly read books set in Ancient Rome (late republic) and I agree with the above comment that they're almost always political. Looking at my shelf, perhaps "Counting the Stars" by Helen Dunmore is something. It's a romance novel about the poet Catullus and Clodia Metelli (commonly believed to be his mistress). Catullus hates politics, so there's not a lot of it :)

A book I really enjoyed recently is "The Song of Troy" by Colleen McCullough, which retells the Torjan War from beginning to end. Some great character portrayal (Odysseus and Agamemnon come to mind first) and some very interesting interpretation of the Iliad :)

My favourite historical novel would be, hands down, "The Ides of March" by Thornton Wilder. It features politics and the beginning is a bit tedious, but in my opinion it's really worth it. Very vivid portrayal of Caesar, Cicero, Catullus and lots of others.

[aeslis]

All three of those sound fantastic. I've read the Iliad and I like the story of it and the ideas behind it, so I'll be looking into The Song of Troy for sure, and definitely the others, as well.

[xwingace]

I also loved McCullough's Masters of Rome series, following Marius, Sulla and Caesar as they guide the Republic to an end. Very political, but McCullough manages to make it interesting.

She does fangirl Gaius Julius Caesar a bit, though.

XWA

[shiny_crystal]

I've read the first volume, First Man in Rome. I liked it, particularly because of the way she portrays Sulla, but I'm a bit afraid to read further (heard too much about declining standards). It did have some lengths, *imo* mostly because of the military (and some political) stuff. But overall, I'd recommend it, too :)

[archersangel]

another vote for the masters of rome series

[damned_colonial]

Are you familiar with Rosemary Sutcliff's novels set in Roman Britain? "The Eagle of the Ninth" is the best known, but there are two others: "The Lantern Bearers" and "The Silver Branch".

I suspect you'll find Mary Renault too much like a history lesson, but they are classics for a reason. I see from your profile that you're into the hawt gay men, so you might appreciate the fact that they tend to focus on male/male relationships. (ETA: "The Persian Boy" also has some harem type stuff, IIRC -- the main character is a eunuch.)

If you're interested in non-fantasy medieval, I really like Sharan Newman's Catherine le Vendeur mysteries, set in 12th century France. They have a long arc through the whole series, and it all circles around this one woman and her family. The same author also did a Guinevere-centric series based on Arthurian legend (but quite historical for Arthurian, if you know what I mean) that I quite enjoyed.

(If you like mysteries, there are a LOT of good classical/medieval historical mysteries out there.)

And randomly, looking at my shelves, Michael Chabon's "Gentlemen of the Road" is good fun -- it's hard to categorise but it's kind of swashbuckling and fluffy but also very historically interesting. It's about Jews in 10th century in what is now Turkey/Azerbaijan/that sort of area.

[holyschist]

I heartily second Rosemary Sutcliff, although my favorite of her books is actually The Shining Company, which is set a bit later and is based on Y Gododdin.

I loved Renault's The King Must Die and The Bull From the Sea when I was a kid, but I was a weird nerdy child who tried to teach herself to read hieroglyphics (not quite grasping that I would also need to understand ancient Egyptian). So I have no idea whether they'd be too history lesson-y as an adult.

[shiny_crystal]

*jumps in randomly* Concerning Mary Renault, I've recently read Fire From Heaven and must admit I was very bored (I thought there was too much history just being told instead of shown). However, I've heard much praise about The Persian Boy, so I suppose I should still give that one a try?

[aeslis]

Those all sound like wonderful recommendations! I'll be honest and say I don't know if I like mysteries, but I very well might. Modern-day mysteries don't sound so interesting to me, but a different setting very well might change my mind. It's always worth trying anyway, isn't it?

I'll definitely look into this stuff, though! Thanks!

[damned_colonial]

Some very easy-to-find medieval mysteries, which most people seem to enjoy, are the Brother Cadfael mysteries by Ellis Peters. They're set in England during the civil war between Stephen and Maud, around 1120 IIRC, and the main character/detective is a monk in an abbey near Shrewsbury near the Welsh border. Any library should have them, and you don't need to read them in any particular order I don't think. (The Catherine le Vendeur ones reward reading in order, though -- the long character arcs are much stronger.)

[shanaqui]

Guy Gavriel Kay's work tends to be a blend between fantasy and historical fiction -- his Sailing to Sarantium/Lord of Emperors duology is essentially about the Byzantine empire, only with magic. There's some political stuff, but the people are more important than the politics, if you get what I mean.

[holyschist]

+1 on Kay.

[aeslis]

Really?! Why did I not know this? I've certainly heard of him. Time to add that to my list of things to look into. :)

And people > politics sounds just perfect. It's hard to write a story without any politics, but I don't really have a political mind, so if it gets complex I kinda get lost, that's all.

[shanaqui]

He's just got a new book out, Under Heaven, which is alternate history Tang Dynasty China. So excited to get my hands on it!

[trouble]

I've just picked up Jo Graham's Black Ships. It's a retelling of the Aneaid with fantasy elements..

[grlnamedlucifer]

I was just going to recommend this myself. The whole series is wonderful, with the next dealing with Egypt and Cleopatra.

[aeslis]

Oooohhh. Writing it down on my list! My thanks. :D

[epporsimuove]

The only harem book I can think of is Susan Fletcher's Shadow Spinner which is a wonderful retelling of the Scheherazade tale set in Ancient Persia.

[aeslis]

That's not one that I've stumbled over, so I'm glad you mentioned it. Thank you! That style setting is just beautiful, imo.

[xwingace]

Simon Scarrow's Eagles series seems to be a kind of Sharpe set during the time Rome is trying to conquer Britain. I've only read one (two more in the to-read pile), but it's decent historical/adventure fiction.

I haven't really checked around for prose historical fiction from Japan, but I've read a few manga here and there. The author of Kaze Hikaru (about the Shinsengumi) impresses me with the research (s)he puts in, and the historical notes on what was accurate and what wasn't.

XWA

[aeslis]

That's true, manga tend to go into historical and ancient worlds fairly often. And they get translated more often than Japanese novels. There are some fantastical ones that I really love.

I'll check out Kaze Hikaru, too. :)

[xwingace]

Mushishi might also be something for you. It has quite some fantasy elements, but it's definitely a look at a different culture from the European.

XWA

[theodosia21]

My favorite historical novel of all time is undoubtedly The Beacon at Alexandria, by Gillian Bradshaw. It's unfortunately out of print, but you can pick a second hand copy up on Amazon fairly cheaply.

Here's the Library Journal summary:

When Charis learns that her father has betrothed her to the hated Roman governor Festinus, she enlists the aid of her brother and flees to Alexandria. There, disguised as a eunuch, she begins to study Hippocratic medicine under the tutelage of a patient Jewish physician. The young woman excels as a healer and her fame spreads. Political intrigues force her to frontier outposts of the Roman Empire where she practices as an army doctor. She succeeds in maintaining her disguise until she is captured and held prisoner by the Goths during their uprising against the Romans. Bradshaw has superbly re-created the political, social, and intellectual climate of the 4th century A.D. and the attitudes towards woman and medicine in this excellent work for most public libraries.

Charis is awesome. She runs around and has lots of adventures and a career and even a romance, though the guy who falls in love with her is very confused for a long time, as he thinks she's a guy for most of the book. Anyway, I highly recommend this book!

[aeslis]

That does sound AMAZING. Obviously, they must print more.

Strong female leads in stories are so hard to find, so the fact that she's so awesome is a definite pull. Thank you so much for the recommendation!

[trouble]

Oh, before I forget! There's a good Mythic China book - "Silver Phoenix", Cindy Pomm. Love!

[aeslis]

Thank you! I'll look into it!

[archersangel]

if you don't mind stuff from the tudor-era, i suggest the phillipa gregory novels.

or mysteries set in the victorian/edwardian era of england & egypt, those would be the amelia peabody novels by elizabeth peters

[moonreviews]

I hope you don't mind me commenting on such an old post, but I thought it might be useful for other people who'd happen to scroll through the community (seeing as your post is still on the front page...).

Barbara Wood writes a lot of historical fiction, almost all having a (female) main character who practices medicine in one way or another. The books aren't like history lessons at all, so I suggest going through her book list to find a period that sounds interesting to you :) Of the countries you name in your post, "Soul flame" takes place in several of those countries. It's also my favourite Barbara Wood book. She has also written books taking place in harems. I suggest just going to the library or something to see which Barbara Wood books they have - I have not been disappointed by her yet :)

As for Japan, Laura Joh Rowland wrote some mysteries taking place in Japan, of which I've only read one book. They're detective stories, which is a genre I am not really interested in, but the one I read was "The Snow Empress" and it took place in Hokkaido in the 17th century, if I remember correctly.
I've also read some books by modern Japanese authors which take place in the past. I really liked Hisako Matsubara's "Cranes at dusk" and Yasunari Kawabata's "The old capital", for example. Other books set in historical Japan I liked are:
-A daughter of the samurai, by Etsu Inagaki Sugimoto
-The teahouse fire, by Ellis Avery
-Harukor: an Ainu woman's tale, by Katsuichi Honda
-The last concubine, by Lesley Downer
-My Asakusa: Coming of Age in Pre-War Tokyo, by Sadako Sawamura
-Geisha: a life, by Mineko Iwasaki
-The tale of Murasaki, by Liza Dalby

As for Egypt, I've just finished reading Wilbur Smith's River god and I really liked it! There's also a sequel, which takes place in modern times, which I'm reading now. Stephanie Dray also wrote two books taking place in both Egypt/Italy/Mauretania (Northern Africa), about Cleopatra's daugher.

[aeslis]

Thank you so much! I certainly don't mind a comment on an old post, since I'm always looking for new books. :D I will take all these under advisement and go look into them!